Salon Strategy: How L’Oréal Scales Professional Beauty from the Inside Out

0:00:09.7 Kailey Raymond: Welcome to Builders Wanted, the podcast for people shaping what's next in customer engagement. Today's guest knows what it takes to build impact behind the scenes of beauty's biggest brands. I'm joined by Kevin Stang, Chief of Staff to the President of the US Professional Products Division at L'Oréal, the powerhouse behind salon-forward and professional beauty products. Kevin brings a rare mix of strategic vision, operational precision and cross functional leadership, helping L'Oréal's professional division evolve in fast changing markets. Whether it's how salons get trained, how brands stay differentiated, or how innovation crosses borders, Kevin is building to scale with both care and creativity. Today we'll talk about how to align purpose with performance, what it looks like to lead high powered teams in beauty, and why building for professionals requires listening deeply to both artists and partners.

0:01:02.5 Producer: This podcast is brought to you by Twilio, the customer engagement platform that helps businesses turn real time data into seamless, personalized experiences. Engage customers on their terms across SMS, voice, email, WhatsApp and more. Power every interaction with AI so conversations feel natural, not robotic. Adapt in real time, delivering the right message on the right channel exactly when it matters. That's the power of Twilio. More than 320,000 businesses from startups to Fortune 500s trust Twilio to transform customer signals into conversations, connections and real revenue. Reimagine the way you engage with your customers. Learn more at Twilio.com.

0:01:51.6 Kailey Raymond: Kevin, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being here.

0:01:53.5 Kevin Stang: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

0:01:56.1 Kailey Raymond: This should be a fun conversation. I want to ask you, you are the Chief of Staff. I think it's a really unique role because you're behind both the strategy and the execution. So, name of the show Builders wanted, gotta ask you a builder question. What does being a builder mean to you within L'Oréal's professional business?

0:02:18.0 Kevin Stang: Oh, that's a great question and I think one that we talk about often. And I think if you were to ask my boss who I report into, Leslie Marino, who oversees our division, she would tell you at the core is our people and that really is the center of our focus, it's the center of our attention and it's really a big investment for us to make sure we're not only bringing in the right talent, but we're also helping transform that talent once they've joined us. And what's really unique about our division in particular when we say professional beauty, it's actually not only selling to salon professionals. But also the end consumer. So we do sell through some of those specialty channels as well. Think Sephora, Ulta, some Amazon as well. And it really challenges our marketers to be true 360 marketers because in a way they're almost operating as a true brand manager. They're operating in some respects as a trade marketer. And then they also have to learn to market to sales because we sit in this very blended B2B and B2C organization. So we have the luxury of owning the number one professional distributor in the market today, which is SalonCentric.

0:03:23.4 Kevin Stang: So when we are selling professional products, our first pitch, our first sell that we have to do is to that sales team and that distributor group. From there they're taking that product and then they are on our behalf selling that product then to the stylist, that end consumer within the professional, that B2B world. But it doesn't stop there. We then have to take and train them, educate them on making sure they could take that message, either offer it as a service or encourage that sell through as well, which is where that B2C portion really comes in. And you also have this directly in the way that we would market more traditionally in a consumer channel directly with that client or the consumer at shelf. So it really challenges that 360 mindset and really develops a really, really robust marketer who really is allowing themselves to grow both personally in that connection and expose themselves to new ways of marketing and new ways of connecting, especially through emotion with that professional. But on the flip side, giving that true fundamental or professional foundation that allows them to translate their skills into other division or industry that they would shift into next.

0:04:29.5 Kailey Raymond: It seems like the 360 marketers are like the Swiss army knife of marketers, Kevin, it's quite an interesting concept. I've talked about that a few times is like...And in many ways we are all just speaking to humans. B2B and B2C obviously carry different implications. But I like this kind of concept around marketers that can think in all these different ways. And it's interesting that your marketers get the opportunity to do that.

0:04:55.9 Kevin Stang: It's a very layered approach and it takes time to get used to that. And I think the more time that they spend, the more that they appreciate it. And when you move past just the product to understanding that you're selling potentially a connection to someone's livelihood, you're selling to a small business at the end of the day. And when we talk about education, giving them the right talking points, the right scripting, we are directly influencing that individual. And I think that is something that's really meaningful to me. And what's really unique again about this division is that proximity and connection that we really get.

0:05:30.7 Kailey Raymond: I like it. So close to the consumers and making sure that you're really empowering these entrepreneurs to do what they do best. 

0:05:37.7 Kevin Stang: Absolutely. 

0:05:38.6 Kailey Raymond: You're talking about your people and how important investing in them is. And I know in your career, you've worked across strategy, and brand, and operations. And so I'm wondering what your thoughts are on what you think unites your approach to shaping both culture and growth.

0:05:55.9 Kevin Stang: Another great question, and I think for me, it really sits at this intersection of seamless integration and communication. And I think balancing those two pieces is one of the hardest elements of roles today, is we're becoming more and more matrixed in the way that we operate. And there's always a new function or a new area of the business that needs attention, needs the support, and needs the growth. And through that, again, taking that initial 360 marketer, the next big piece that the marketer, especially at L'Oréal, is responsible for, and I take this back to my career when I started at P&G, the first manager sat me down and explained this idea of being the hub of the wheel. And I know this is an older comparison that we've probably heard but to me it really rings true, even more important today. At the center, they need to be managing and integrating and pulling in and communicating and keeping everyone on the pulse of the business and what needs to be done to drive it forward. And if any of those spokes on the wheel are broken with your cross-functional partners, you risk missing something or you miss not reaching a launch or an animation's full potential. So the more that we can spend that time and understand that team environment and the connection of the communication that's required, it really gives us that leg up on competition who are instead operating in isolation.

0:07:17.7 Kevin Stang: And the last piece I think that is extremely important, and we talk about proximity and connection and building an environment and a culture that really is rooted in inclusivity and diversity of thought. I think one thing L'Oréal does great is creating space for all of us to come together and making sure we have a seat at the table, just like I can raise my hand and communicate where I'm blinded to or areas I need more exposure, education or continuing education. I think it's more vital than ever, especially with these new areas like AI coming into the fold of our everyday marketing and our everyday ways of working, how do we make sure we're not only training them, but bringing those subject matter experts into the room for discussion to not only elevate the discussion but move it in a direction potentially never actually have.

0:08:04.4 Kailey Raymond: You said AI first, I didn't... So I want the record to be... Okay, everyone listening...

0:08:11.1 Kevin Stang: It was a race to it. 

0:08:12.6 Kailey Raymond: Yeah. Usually these days, it seems. It is on the tip of everybody's tongue, but it's interesting to think about the AI applications within your industry. Absolutely. I want to bring it back to this concept, which you were talking about of the hub. And I've heard that a lot. I love that. I think it makes a ton of sense. We sit really at the center of being partners cross-functionally to pretty much every part of the business and having a line of sight directly into the consumers and the end customers. It's like the lifeblood of what we do. It's how we actually are inspired and are creative. How do you help the US Professional products team connect what happens at HQ with actually what's happening with salons across the country?

0:08:57.5 Kevin Stang: Yeah. And I think now more than ever, there's a need for human connection. And it's extremely easy for us to spend time in any headquarters or for that matter, in any industry to sit in a corporate boardroom and have these conversations and not really bring the voice of the consumer into the fold. And that's not to say that other teams, other industries aren't doing it, but it may represent itself in a different way. It might come through in the data, the reporting, the panel insights, et cetera. But it's very easy to lose the truth when it's just data or letters on a page. For me, it's taking those moments and immersing yourself into the field. We have a program that allows anyone on our organization, especially within our HQ, to actually do what we call field immersion visits. Now, this is a chance for them to sit in a car, ride along with a sales field member from one of the team members in our distributor group, and actually ride along and go into the salons, hear the conversations they're having, ask those questions that are burning that maybe aren't necessarily getting all the way back to HQ and really digging into the why behind some of that reasoning.

0:10:09.7 Kevin Stang: And I think through that, it kind of shows this idea that data can help guide initial discussions, but at the same time, there's an element of data reporting versus data storytelling. And translating that into true actionable insights takes time and it takes the ability to understand those nuances, and bring in that human connection, that human touch, to allow us to balance that quantum qual. So for us, it's a huge investment we try to make, and it's one that's actually encouraged by all of our leaders to take that time. If you have a meeting, and I'm making it up, Florida, where our national operating center is for SalonCentric, to say, hey, can I spend an extra day and ride along with X so I can visit these salons? Or I was just on the road last week in Connecticut, and through that, when I was in the car with some of the team members, we actually pulled off and stopped at an Ulta, and went and looked at the shelf, understood the inventory position. It's great when you have leaders come in and you go to the perfect shelf set, or you go to the most flagship salon that has the most beautiful organization, but is that really your reality? Is it our reality? And how do we make sure we see through that to get to the root of the issues and the needs for the business?

0:11:18.1 Kailey Raymond: So interesting what you're saying. It reminds me of a conversation I was having with the Chief Growth Officer at Tapestry a few weeks back, which is, he's visiting folks across the country and world as well. And he had this kind of insight that he shared around listening to what they're not saying and understanding that sometimes those are the pockets of innovation and creativity. Because I do think to your point, this quantum qual is a really important thing to be ahead of the trend. Because if you're just looking at quant, you're probably just looking at things that already happened. And there's a predictive, creative, innovative nature to the things that you're putting out into the world. And so being able to drive that trend and start that trend is also, I'm sure, part of what you're looking into with that data analysis.

0:12:05.6 Kevin Stang: Absolutely. And to that effect, there's so much we can do right now that allows us to see history so well. I think we're in one of the most data-rich moments that we've had. And we talk about innovation cycles shrinking shorter and shorter and shorter. The time for us to go through and take that data and spend the time and the rigor to actually use it to be predictive, to start trying to understand what's going on instead of being reactive and secondary in nature, is a shift in the way we operate. It's the shift in the way we have meetings, the way we talk, the way we work. And one of the areas we had a chance to briefly discuss on this is even something as simplistic as trying to understand how to set and create trends within hair color. That's a huge passion of mine. It's where I started my career in actually the last role that I was in before I moved into this chief of staff role. And one thing that we tried doing, and I actually give a lot of credit, there was an intern that we had who came into this program with an applied mathematics background.

0:13:06.7 Kevin Stang: And with them, they were actually able to go through and look all the way down to a shade family level to try to understand when were those sales spiking? And again, at face value, you might look at that and say, all right, it's week three of September that reds are starting to spike as we head into fall. That's when we should execute. But it's actually taking that one step further and saying, well, if it's spiking, then we need to even predate that further. All right. Well, if we're going to do that, when do we layer in our PR pitching? When do we layer in our education for the field to make sure that they're trained on those shades to execute beautiful, flawless reds, which are one of the hardest shade families to execute? So there's so much nuance that comes with them. And to your point, at a certain point, you're just looking at data numbers on a page. But how can you take that to guide the discussions going all the way back to that hub? How do you integrate all those different groups that come together with a focused insight and a way to bring that to life and do it in such a way that it doesn't feel reactive, but rather proactive?

0:14:09.3 Kailey Raymond: 100%. Not an easy thing to achieve, but making sure you understand the timelines from awareness to intent to actual purchase and all of those things within your individual businesses, such an important thing to be able to drive that and get ahead of it from a marketing perspective. A lot of what we're talking about is kind of this intersection of like, where do digital trends come in? How do we make sure that we are continuing to think about the folks that really matter, which are our stylists? I think that what we're saying is we're driving towards more personalization as well in salons of making sure that we're finding the exact right match, we're matching the season with the moment, all these sorts of things. Salons are more digitally connected today, and I would argue that because of that, it is more personal experience or it can be a more personal experience. So I'm wondering, what are some of the shifts that you're seeing that are shaping how L'Oréal is thinking about this new or different digital channel experience audience?

0:15:10.5 Kevin Stang: So I think the first piece that I look at is let's go to a generational standpoint. Different groups and different generations are using platforms differently and their comfort on those platforms very differently. If you were to ask stylists, I would say that you would find from an adoption standpoint, the majority, if not all, are comfortable and have some presence on social media. And when I look at that and some of the work that we try to do is understand how are stylists using those platforms in a way to best set them up for success. So TikTok is a lot around inspiration. It's a great tool also for recruiting, especially the independent stylist to show off their work and try to get new clients to recruit them to their chair. The next I would say is YouTube. YouTube has been an incredible resource and probably the hottest resource for training stylists. It's a great platform that again doesn't have a barrier to entry to allow them to understand how do I do that lived in blonde that we just talked about? What product do I need? Maybe how does my technique differ? And each of these platforms really are servicing different needs.

0:16:19.8 Kevin Stang: So it means that we have to adapt our content to that, the way that we're communicating on that, and also making sure that any generation or any individual who wants access to it has access to it at scale. Because those are some of the investments we've made and you talk to our distributors, they do incredible, incredible work. But if something like an education class sits behind a pay barrier, what does that mean? Are we seeing the right number of individuals take that and how do they value physical versus virtual education? These are all questions that are constantly popping up for us to try to figure out where are we going to spend our time and where are we going to show up and how are we going to show up? The last piece that I think really kind of, for me, transitions this new digital environment is the way that we have to operate internally around creating this content. We also need to be thinking about how are we changing the way and the resourcing we have internally to create these new assets to show up really well for stylists when they're seeking it.

0:17:17.3 Kevin Stang: One of my favorite things that we've done is actually create something called a storyteller role. That's their actual title. They're called storytellers. And their job is really to create pop culture and understand what is going on in the digital space, what are the conversations that are happening, what are the trends that are starting to rise. And then through that, use it as a way to guide where do our brains have an opportunity to play? Where does a product launch that maybe is upcoming, how can we tap into that? Is there an opportunity for us to engage with Ulta and help drive traffic to them through one of these trends? Because for some reason, buy online, pick up on store is sparking on social as a great resource or a great opportunity. It really spans the gamut of all the opportunities available. But those storytellers have been one of the most critical investments we've made to not only seek those trends out, but in doing so allow us to be very proactive in choosing which brands and which opportunities we're going to engage in. And then doing so through far that we actually have a digital content center, content factory that will produce that content internally to allow us fast turnaround and to execute it extremely, extremely quick to be on the pulse of culture.

0:18:30.9 Kailey Raymond: So is this role, this storyteller, I love this concept. So, it seems like they're kind of like bridging together insights and data and trends and then maybe even developing like playbooks for brand innovations, tactics, places where you should be. So would you say is that where you're bridging the gap between the innovations that you're bringing into the brand and the actual like salon environment itself is this storyteller role?

0:18:57.5 Kevin Stang: Yeah. I would even say it goes even all the way to the client and the consumer channel as well. I wouldn't say it's only limited to the pro. And while there are moments where it lived in pops and we need to make sure that how to is quickly executed. It could be as silly as one of the new TikTok sounds that's really engaging and driving a lot of traffic and attention that we think we have a product or a story that would match that extremely well. So it does allow for us to separate those two. The way I like to think about it is if you drop all of the guardrails that you have in a very traditional agency relationship, if you took one of the most creative individuals and blended that with an understanding and a foundation to understand those insights and that data, you basically have a one person agency assigned to these brands that is taking and operating with none of those kind of red tape moments to bring these actions to life. And that to me is the coolest part because you've all been on those calls where you're picking up the phone saying, I would love to be in this.

0:19:58.9 Kevin Stang: How quick can we do it? The shoot can be in two weeks. And then by the time you finally get it to market, it's three months down the line. What would happen if you had an individual send you a video, you get approval by mid-morning and you're in the content center by the afternoon shooting the content and it's up within 48 hours. That is the type of speed and change that we've really made internally to help take that story that that storyteller is creating and try to remove all of those operation or hierarchical barriers that exist in very modern or traditional groupings and try to put that at the forefront to allow fast speed and reaction.

0:20:36.8 Kailey Raymond: That's so interesting because I do think that one of the things that we suffer from as marketers is exactly that is the pace of culture can feel like it moves faster than marketing's ability to execute. And with AI, it gets even worse. And with platforms like TikTok and all these creators, the pace of culture is lightning fast. So how can brands keep up? This is a really interesting concept for folks to consider and think about is assigning people to get really close to it and unblocking them to be able to drive innovation and creative thinking internally. It's very smart. I love that concept. Very cool.

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0:22:13.5 Kailey Raymond: Obviously, there's this interaction between what we've been talking about with the stylists. The stylists are some of the most important people to you. And there is a little bit of control that you give up as a brand in the hands of a stylist. And I think that that's probably a necessary tradeoff with what you're doing and making sure that that personal touch still lives in the stylist's hands. But just thinking about that as a thought exercise, when you're scaling these launches or when you're kind of going into new trainings or whatever, how do you make sure that that tension exists in the same balance that you want it to? Like the control of the brand and the personal touch of the stylists?

0:22:51.7 Kevin Stang: I would love to say we were doing AI and all of this great work and kind of understood the playbook five plus years ago. And I think we're still learning it. And I think we've all been in those moments where you've written your brief to X individual to help kind of create this content with a goal in mind. And you're sitting there and your logo needs to be on X corner, this needs to be referenced in this exact verbiage to get approved by legal and so on and so forth. And it became so overly prescriptive that if you took the step back and asked, why were we working with this individual in the first place? Or why were we actually doing this AI campaign? I think one thing we really would realize is saying, we wanted them for their authentic self, their authentic content. But we became so overly prescriptive, so controlling in everything we were doing that it actually removed that special sauce from everything that they were creating. And I think if you take that same mindset and now transition it back to the stylists to talk about taking a product, transitioning to a sales team, even as the brand not always communicating directly with the stylist, sometimes you've got to train that sales team first. Going back to where we started, how do we give them the right way to engage, the right way to communicate it? 

0:24:11.1 Kevin Stang: So that way, the client's having the best experience, the stylist is offering the best service, and ultimately we're help fueling and funnel their business for hopefully a return client. So, there's a moment that I like to think about or a way I like to think about the stylist, which is at the end of the day, they're artisans. They're true artists in the way that they execute. They are able to see a palette of color and bring to life a beautiful, beautiful, rich, dimensional output. At the end of the day, the hair is their canvas, and we need to give them the right tools, the right guides for them to create that work. Just like there's no one right answer, we need to give them the broader guardrails so it meets your expectation, it meets their expectations, but in no way should we be over prescribing a use case or a way that they could speak about it because at the end of the day, it's merely a tool for them to continue to express their art.

0:25:06.3 Kailey Raymond: I couldn't agree more. And I think that your example of reducing the authenticity of an influencer partner or somebody because you get so prescriptive, it's something that I think a lot of marketers could really just empathize with and fully understand. And kind of like on that note, I'm wondering if there's an example of something that you'd be willing to share around a moment where some sort of like go-to-market decision or something it didn't land exactly as you had expected it, but it may have taught you something really beautiful that you've taken with you.

0:25:40.2 Kevin Stang: I will be the first to say I have had many of failures, or as I like to rebrand them, learnings throughout my career. So while there's maybe not one moment that really comes to mind, I think I look at it through a variety of lenses, which is the first, when we're bringing something to market, are we allowing enough time to pass to allow us a versioning and an understanding of success? The second piece is then how are we measuring that success and that learning to then refunnel it back into our business? So did we, for example, rush to market and in doing so, not spend time training our sales team and instead did it at the same time that we were trying to train our salons? Maybe there was a learning that we need to separate that by a month, or maybe we need to, again, pre-seed particular stylists so that by the time we get to the sales team, they have the language to then funnel it back to stylists alike. There's all these micro-moments that are constantly being learned by the teams, and through that we've actually built quite a large ecosystem to share those learnings and share those failures, or however you want to rebrand them.

0:26:46.5 Kevin Stang: And for me, I think that's one of the things I value most is we really champion those learnings across lunch and learns. We have a variety of leadership meetings where it's actually something that is the expectation that you're bringing is not just the wins, but how are you coming and saying, we just went through this product reformulation to meet X legal requirement. When we're looking in the future, if we need to get to a new state or we need to get to a new product learning, how are we taking and making sure that brand has spoken to the other to make sure that they don't make that same mistake again? So through that we've really built the right ecosystem that I think allows us to bridge those conversations.

0:27:25.8 Kailey Raymond: Yeah. It is interesting. It's kind of this never-ending cycle of feedback loops that can then inform what you're doing next. And one of the things that you're mentioning in particular is around speed. This has kind of been a bit of a trend of this conversation is you do need to balance the speed of your marketing, making sure that you are in the moment. I mean, there's plenty of recent examples with the Taylor Swift engagement. How many brands turned their colors? So being able to trend jack is certainly an important thing. But to your point, when you're launching a new product or removing a product or something from the market, what is the right time horizon to do that? And how long do you need to let it bake? And so thinking about that, how do you think about that prioritization of being able to be speedy versus being able to do it right when responding to these big creative shifts that are happening in salon trends?

0:28:23.7 Kevin Stang: I've heard the term, and it's been said to me, like moving at the speed of culture. I would love to be able to move at the speed of culture and be that quick to be able to pivot and adapt on the dime. And I think through that, to your point, speed is really the root, but it's really the adaptability and the flexibility that need to come and be paired with it. I'll even give the example of something that happened last night. A celebrity walks out onto the red carpet and they've suddenly gone from brunette to blonde. That's an incredible pop culture moment. We couldn't prepare for that, but I'm sure many of us were sitting on our couches alike on Sunday night watching this going, oh gosh, we gotta get on that, or oh, that's a great topic. Let me actually see if we can maybe get a shoot drafted and to be able to react to that. But the same thing goes for even on a product thesis, sitting there and saying, oh, X signal ingredient just popped and now there's a love for this product with X ingredient. Well, do we have the inventory to support it?

0:29:20.7 Kevin Stang: How can we react to that? Can we build this? Well, what does that mean for our customers? Could we get a placement? Could we sell them this story that allows us to animate and execute these in bigger and better ways? To me, it also starts with having the right framework to react to these moments. So I think all too often you might hear in a business setting this idea of fire drills. This high reactive, high frenetic energy moment where something happens and then everyone needs to drop everything and that becomes the number one priority. We spend a lot of time trying to organize these so-called fire drills to really bring it into a moment to say, when something sparks, how do we have the right decision makers in the room? How do we understand the needs of the business in that moment? And then can we determine whether or not we can execute against it? Until we have those answers, there should only be a small and a core group working and putting their attention towards that until it becomes and is defined as a priority. If we can keep some of our teams out of this and be able to have the rigor to keep that somewhat centralized, by the time it gets to the point of execution, we should have the answers to guide those follow-up questions that our team will ask. Just like X just changed their hair. All right. Well, this is what we determined. We know that we have the color, imagine. We know we have a right to speak to it. We know that this is the education technique they would use and this is how we can do it. Well, that actually just solved a lot of the swirl that our teams otherwise would react to. So I think through that speed, yes, absolutely important, but it needs to come with a bit of structure and it needs to come with a willingness for the teams to flex and adapt in those moments when priorities might shift.

0:31:06.5 Kailey Raymond: Brilliant. I love it. I mean, I think that everybody can understand what a fire drill feels like. It's not good.

0:31:13.3 Kevin Stang: It's not the best.

0:31:14.9 Kailey Raymond: It's not the best, and often it's actually just a waste of time. And that is the worst because if you could actually focus on the things that are true priorities, you'd probably drive the business forward a lot faster than if we had spent X days or weeks or whatever in a state of swirl. So that clarity is a really important thing to drive as quickly as you can. So I love that insight. I want to give you the chance to share something that gets you excited that you're really proud of. So I'm wondering if there was a recent launch or initiative where you feel like some of the things that you've been talking about strategies that you've been implementing, the structures you've been putting together, like just clicked in a way that made you feel excited, made you feel proud.

0:32:01.8 Kevin Stang: Oh, that's such a loaded question. I'm like a parent to all of these brands at this point, so I'm so proud of all of them. So, if it's Kerastase and their incredible hero strategy that is driving unreal growth through, again, very focused formats. It's Matrix who redefined a heritage brand and brought it into the modern age and created a brand that feels and truly breathes inclusivity. It's Biolage bringing science into natural products and doing so by hiring a celebrity influencer in Pamela Anderson to represent and bring a voice to an older generation and show that in beauty. It's Redken in operating and executing Sabrina Carpenter and continuing to drive double-digit growth on acidic bonding concentrate in year four, continuing to build a regimen and use that as a way to recruit Gen Z. I mean, I could go on and on to say all the things I'm proud of, but I think the thing that excites me the most is I feel like we're in an era or we're in a truly interesting moment within the market to say you have your pre-COVID, you have your post-COVID, and now you kind of have this new era of AI. You have this new era of authentic brand relationships and connection.

0:33:25.5 Kevin Stang: We've shifted from high-quality content to low-quality content to high-quality content, all of a sudden becoming important again. It's such a dynamic period. And again, going back to what we talked about with adaptability, flexibility, the teams are so strong right now in understanding the needs of the ever-evolving market and being able to take time and pause and truly prioritize what we think is going to move the needle while simultaneously keeping our eye on that kind of North Star, which is the people, the stylists, the group that really needs us to continue to move this industry forward. And I think the last piece I will say is we've made a huge investment into the education of stylists. And one of the projects I really carry true to my heart was bringing back, it was called Redken Symposium. It's the largest independent brand event, which hosted over 7,000, almost 10,000 people as well for next year, together in one place for multiple days of continuing education. And that to me is just so impressive to see how brand love and brand connection just continues to reign true for this next generation of stylists. And for all stylists for that matter, to have that connection and that authenticity from the brand and making sure at the end of the day we represent and we bring forward a variety of products, but it's really the people that bring them to life. And the more we remember that and the more that we bring that forward and everything that we're doing, it really just creates such an incredible magical output.

0:35:01.3 Kailey Raymond: All right. Kevin, I have a few quick questions to ask you to kind of round out this conversation. Name one beauty or channel trend that you're watching closely in professional markets.

0:35:14.2 Kevin Stang: To me, it's partnerships beyond people. I think this is such a unique area that has really started to come out where these limited edition, I'll make it up, sneakers or this collaboration between these two brands or this creator and this brand, I think is really allowing brands and creators alike to really tap into new audiences. And I think it's something you're gonna see much more common in these next few years.

0:35:40.2 Kailey Raymond: I love it. What's a beauty brand outside of L'Oréal that you admire for what they're doing and how they connect professionals and evolve creatively?

0:35:50.1 Kevin Stang: I'm gonna give you a cop-out answer and say Color Wow, who just joined the family just last week. 

0:35:56.8 Kailey Raymond: Love it. 

0:35:57.6 Kevin Stang: I think for me, what is so incredible about that brand and what Gail Federici has really built with her incredible team is one that truly understood the pulse and truly recognized the needs and the white space that existed within this industry. And they did so by creating almost this internal process that brought these creators, these influencers, these stylists, these artists into their network and truly created almost this brand devotion, this connection, and the way that they treated them that they were truly a part of the team. And I think that to me is where you look at a brand that was just so digitally native and truly understood what it took to grow in this new market. They, to me, found a way to create heroes that address needs with some of the strongest formulations and did so with the right partners in an authentic way that truly resonated. I mean, to me, that's the perfect formula and one of the reasons we were so excited about them.

0:36:56.2 Kailey Raymond: Well, congrats on bringing them into the family.

0:36:59.3 Kevin Stang: Thank you. We're excited to have them. Another sister has joined the bunch.

0:37:03.1 Kailey Raymond: What's one thing that every modern marketer should start or stop doing?

0:37:09.0 Kevin Stang: I'm gonna go back to my earlier answer and really talk about over-influencing creators' output. I think this just really irks me in so many ways that we claim we want original, authentic content and then you go into a brief and we've defined and scripted them for the entire video. That, to me, is just such a waste of our time. And I think it really is a challenge that I would give to any individual on these marketing roles or those interfacing with the creator networks is to truly understand what does make that person special, their content special, their connection special. And if anything, try to fuel that instead of restrict it.

0:37:50.5 Kailey Raymond: Absolutely. Last question for you, Kevin. Any advice that you have for somebody that is building in this industry? What would you say?

0:38:00.5 Kevin Stang: For me, I would say treat yourself as the client behind the chair, treat yourself as the consumer shopping at shelf, and spend time in the market. And it kind of goes back to your earlier point where I was talking about numbers on the sheet or the insight on that panel data outline. That's very easy to latch onto something and make that your truth or the consumer's truth without fully understanding and vetting that. So what I would challenge is when you're looking through those insights, when you're kind of immersing yourself into this world or whatever you may be building in, take the time to step outside of the office, the HQ, the boardroom, whatever that may be, and go stop into an Ulta, go walk into a salon and introduce yourself and ask them what they're being challenged by and have those real conversations. Because at the end of the day, we are all human in ourself and they just want to be heard and they just want to make sure at the end of the day that we are bringing something to them that solves or makes their life easier. The better we recognize that and take pause to understand that, the better we're going to produce products, content, animation, stories, and so much more. And I think the more that we're able to focus in on that, the more we're going to be able to bring.

0:39:13.2 Kailey Raymond: It always comes back to the customer, doesn't it?

0:39:16.1 Kevin Stang: Always comes back to the customer.

0:39:18.4 Kailey Raymond: Well, Kevin, you gave me a lot of things to think about today. I really appreciate you showing up and teaching me some things and appreciate the time.

0:39:28.7 Kevin Stang: Thank you so much for having me. I really, really enjoyed being on here. Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to share.