Leading with Intention: How Tapestry Builds Modern Luxury at Scale

0:00:09.8 Kailey Raymond: Welcome to Builders Wanted, the podcast for people shaping what's next in customer connection and brand growth. Today's guest is leading transformation across some of the world's most beloved fashion brands. I'm joined by Sandeep Seth, Chief Growth Officer and President of Global Commercial at Tapestry, the parent company of Coach and Kate Spade. Sandeep's role spans brand strategy, consumer insights, retail innovation, and global growth, bridging creativity with commercial success. His leadership blends global scale with customer connection, data with storytelling, and business rigor with brand authenticity. Today, we'll explore what it takes to grow iconic brands in a shifting consumer landscape, how Tapestry is building with agility and purpose, and why listening is the key to brand growth. Let's get into it.

0:01:02.1 Producer: This podcast is brought to you by Twilio, the customer engagement platform that helps businesses turn real-time data into seamless, personalized experiences. Engage customers on their terms across SMS, voice, email, WhatsApp, and more. Power every interaction with AI, so conversations feel natural, not robotic. Adapt in real time, delivering the right message on the right channel, exactly when it matters. That's the power of Twilio. More than 320,000 businesses, from startups to Fortune 500s, trust Twilio to transform customer signals into conversations, connections, and real revenue. Reimagine the way you engage with your customers. Learn more at twilio.com.

0:01:51.4 Kailey Raymond: Sandeep, thank you so much for being here, welcome to the show.

0:01:53.2 Sandeep Seth: Thank you very much. It's an honor to be here.

0:01:55.7 Kailey Raymond: This should be really fun today. And I want to start off because I know that your role is quite expansive, Sandeep. At Tapestry, you work across brand building, commercial strategy, global consumer engagement. And I'm wondering, you're on a show called Builders Wanted, so how would you define your mission as a builder at this moment?

0:02:17.5 Sandeep Seth: Yeah, thank you for that question. You're right. I mean, I get this question a lot, like, how do I spend my time between all these different roles? You know what? I see it all kind of culminating into a single objective or mission, which is, how do we future-proof growth at Tapestry by transforming into a brand growth engine? I mean, all my focus and attention is to institutionalize brand building capabilities in a way we can drive that strong connection between our brands and its consumers. And how do we drive that growth across our brands globally in the international markets, which is part of what I do, but also building capability, be it digital, be it offline, on where we go. So yeah, I mean, for me, one line mission of need to future-proof our growth and continue the momentum.

0:03:07.7 Kailey Raymond: You make it sound simple. I'm sure it's not as simple as that. Your calendar must be nuts every single day. You've also held senior leadership roles across a couple of different industries now, beauty, CPG, of course, now kind of fashion. I always talk about this. I always talk about how careers are a little bit curvy, but usually there's a through line where you can make sure that you're understanding what's been motivating you the entire time. I'm wondering, what's one of those through lines for you that shaped your approach towards growth and brand relevance?

0:03:35.7 Sandeep Seth: I'll even answer the question on whether my calendar is really booked. Actually, it's not. I feel that's essential when you're leading a role which spans across many things. I need more time to think than to do, right? And if my calendar is packed with one thing after the other, there's no time to learn, right? And if you ask me the through line, I can think of two ways to answer that. One through line is consumer focus, right? Now, this could sound like a cliche in P&G where I spent 23 years. It was the months on the wall everywhere was consumer is the boss. The only boss is the consumer, right? At Tapestry, we talk about customer centricity, consumer obsession, like literally in every meeting we have on that. So one way of saying is that's the through line, right? How do you get obsessed in immersing in the consumer? I would say the other through line is continuous learning. For me, that's why I need time. I need time to observe what's happening around, meet people, see how they spend time, right? I mean, I spend as much time on platforms like TikTok and Xiaohongshu and everything else as my consumers do because I need to immerse where they do. So two through lines, focus on consumer and every day is a new learning.

0:04:53.3 Kailey Raymond: I love that. And I actually think that that's something like folks should be writing down is part of what you're saying is that like you yourself as a consumer, if you're able to spend time in the places that your consumers are, you'll have a better connection with them as well. And so I think that blocking the time to be strategic and actually spend time in those places is one of the most important things that you can do every day. And that can often get lost.

0:05:22.8 Sandeep Seth: Absolutely. I mean, I take the subway to office every day deliberately so I can see my consumers. It's amazing in the four years I've lived in New York to see who's carrying a Coach bag, who's carrying a Kate Spade bag, who's wearing the new Soho sneakers, right? And it's so much fun.

0:05:39.7 Kailey Raymond: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that especially over the past few years, five years now, going back to the pandemic, there's been consumer expectations that I think have been dramatically shifting in the retail space. Obviously, there's a lot of experimentation going on with search and AI and all of these different big compounding effects around the ways that consumers' expectations are changing. I also think you've mentioned that part of your role is expanding global opportunity at Tapestry. So I'm wondering, like how you think about helping Tapestry and helping the brands underneath Tapestry meet this really unique moment where things are changing so fast with consumer expectations across the globe.

0:06:27.2 Sandeep Seth: Absolutely. Being in touch with how the consumer's life is changing, I think is essential to what we do. To me, it's not just about understanding how they buy a handbag or what product they like and how they use it. That's really transactional, right? But what's important to stay ahead is to truly immerse in their life. So in a way, I mean, at Tapestry, there's this term that's always been used, which I was fascinated by when I joined, is the combination of magic and logic. The logic comes from us immersing in consumer data, and the magic comes from what we do with those insights and how do we translate them into products and experiences and campaigns that truly delight them. Part of that is we do a lot of immersive ethnographic work, both here in the U.S., but internationally. Last month, I was in China, and I visited a couple of cities like Wuhan and Wuxi and Hefei. So instead of just going to the traditional Shanghais and Beijing, that you always go down a few tiers and meet consumers. We spend two or three hours in their homes, right, when we go there. We talk about everything. We talk about their day, like how it starts and how it goes. We talk about their life, their aspirations, their anxieties, like what's happening.

0:07:45.1 Sandeep Seth: And the part of that is not just hear what they say, but understand what they don't say. The magic doesn't come from what they tell us. The magic comes from what they don't tell us. And how do you sense the tension that's kind of going there? It's not easy, but a true insight is that unexpressed emotion or that unexpressed need and how that the brand, in an authentic way, can fulfill that. And that's where the shift comes. So a big part of my role, my team's role, is to build that capability across the organization. It's not for me to go figure that out. I will not be able to go meet 7 billion people, even if I wish I could. But I do meet a few hundred people every year in person in their homes. And it's fascinating to see their lives, their culture. It not just helps us build the brand strategies and bring that to life through everything we do from, generally talk about the four P's, the product, the price, the place, the promotion. How do you do that? But personally, it changes me as a human being. I mean, I learn so much and I try to pick the best things and do that in my own life.

0:08:52.9 Kailey Raymond: I love what you just said about hearing the things that people don't say. I think that's a really, really interesting insight because it kind of gets to this idea around, you have consumer data that's really important. Obviously, it helps you make really grounded decisions. But a lot of what brand building is, is kind of seeing ahead of what that data is telling you, because that's all retrospective. That's looking at what's already happened. But what you're talking about, that gap between what somebody is saying, what they're not saying, that's the future opportunity for how you actually create space within a brand. And that's really interesting. I'm wondering, I don't know, like, do you have a methodology around that? How does that work in your brain, Sandeep?

0:09:38.2 Sandeep Seth: Yeah, I'll first introduce a term and then I'll talk a bit about this. I've spent a lot of time in Japan in my past role. And even now, you know, as global CEO for SK-II, which is a brand that started from Japan. There's a term in Japan called omotenashi. What that means is anticipating a service before your customer or client has expressed the need for it, but just before that, not too early, not late on that. And observing how they do it in Japan was fascinating. And if you go there ever to a restaurant or a shop, it's so amazing. They know when you're about to put your bag down on the floor, someone will come with a basket and put it under that. Those little things. It's very observational. It's not rocket science. It's not... You don't have to be a therapist to understand that. It's about observing the silence, right? And that culture does that better than everyone. As I said, I try to pick something good from every culture I kind of go in and say, how can I do a bit of that. A lot of this is really those observational skills. It's about listening and then really understanding what are they trying to say. 

0:10:47.1 Sandeep Seth: Generally what happens is when we do these exercises or when we're talking to someone, we're listening to respond. You don't need to respond. You just need to listen. I generally don't take notes also, because then you get immersed in what they're saying. And because what they're saying, anyway, we'll record, right? I mean, it's there. So what are they not saying? Bringing it down to real life. This is what we all do as human beings, by the way. There's no learned behavior. How do you make friends? How do you date? You listen and you do things for your partner before they express it. That's when you fall in love with someone.

0:11:20.3 Kailey Raymond: It's funny, I was talking to one of my male friends recently and his wife about a year ago had this exact conversation and said, you're not anticipating my needs. And then that like was a light bulb for him and then everything switched and it was just like, ah, okay, I get it now.

0:11:38.7 Sandeep Seth: It's exactly that. When you're talking to your consumers, your customers, I mean, as a brand, when you're asking them to come to your store, it's like a first date.

0:11:48.5 Kailey Raymond: You're so right. You're so right. I mean, listen, you talk to a bunch of customers, you say, you go into hundreds of people's like homes, you interview them every year, you obviously have this wealth of like hard data as well at Tapestry. I'm wondering, what do you think is the most exciting shift that you're seeing as it relates to consumer behavior right now?

0:12:10.6 Sandeep Seth: Look, there's a lot. Not mentioning AI, I think will be considered that I live under the rock, but I think we are over talking technology. The biggest and mind blowing change for me may sound very obvious is the Gen Z's and I'm kind of clustering them.

0:12:27.6 Kailey Raymond: They don't like that. Don't...

0:12:29.2 Sandeep Seth: But you know, for the ease of conversation, sometimes it's important internally kind of to that. But you know, if I talk about the teens, let's forget what generation they are or early 20s, they are way more physical than digital, which may surprise a lot of people. And I think that's a fascinating trend and great for us, right? I mean, we have more people visiting our stores today than ever before. So there was a belief that everything will become all online, right? Now, that doesn't mean the use of digital is any less. About a while back, maybe around 10 years back, I watched this video on YouTube of someone talking about that technology is only new if it appears within your lifetime. If it existed before you're born, you don't think of it as technology. And the example he took there was electricity. How many of us think electricity is a technology?

0:13:22.2 Kailey Raymond: Yeah. 

0:13:22.6 Sandeep Seth: You don't even notice it around you, right on that. So everything that we thought was digital and changing the life was because that appeared in our lifetime. And when we're talking about those who are in the teen years or even early 20s, and then Gen Alpha who are like under 14, all of this existed before they were born. So they're not enamored by it. That is supposed to be there, right? They want to live their life. And hence being out is becoming very important. And there are some really amazing facts and insights are coming out of that. I was in Asia recently, which I go every 4 to 6 weeks anyway. People are going back to the old handheld games, those little Nintendos and all of that stuff. Now you'll say that that's also digital. Everything is digital in that sense, but it's way more analog than we thought. There's Polaroid cameras on every party you go, every wedding you go, there are Polaroid cameras everywhere, right? You've got digital cameras on your phone. There are immense implications for brands and businesses with what this shift means. That doesn't mean your digital is not important because that is a part of the seamless experience that they will have. But how we engage, how we understand customer journeys and how that will then further transform with how AI will change that is going to be a fascinating new learning and something which is of such high interest for me. And I have two teenagers at home, my son and daughter, 19 and 14, and observing how they do things. Firstly, I don't understand them at all. So despite my trying to convince them that's my job, I do that all day. They're like, yeah, you don't get us.

0:15:03.0 Kailey Raymond: Of course you don't. You never will. We were the same way when we were their age, you know, so it makes sense. That's really interesting. You're exactly right. Like, yeah, we don't think about electricity. They don't think about smartphones. Sure. But this kind of like change that you're marking, which I think is a really interesting one of, and I see, kids on the subway, we both live in New York with the wired headphones still, you know, and there's like, you know, this interest in like Walkmans and all of these like technologies that don't work very well that are old, which is really cool. In your world though, like, how does that growth in, you know, say you say more people are visiting your stores, which is great, and then you also utter in the same sentence the growth of AI. That is a different omni-channel experience than has existed in, modern history. So I'm wondering how at Tapestry you're thinking about that mixture, how that is changing the ways where you show up. Like, what is your strategy brain doing about, what's the future of what the consumer journey looks like and how to meet people where they are?

0:16:12.0 Sandeep Seth: This is the fascinating part of the work which really energizes me. Firstly, I'll say I don't know. I don't know how to do it. If I knew, I would be doing it. And so whatever we're doing is out there. But we need to learn and we need to be quick with that, right? And a couple of points I'll make on that. Look, stores are going to become more and more important. So versus saying, hey, let's reduce the physical footprint and let's focus more on digital expansion. That's not true. So that really means we have to create great physical experiences. It's more than just about opening stores to sell. It's about creating experiences. And you can see Coach doing that with the cafes that we're expanding, the different craftsmanship bars, the pop-ups, the experiences that we're creating. So with the need for that IRL of being physically there with your friends or experiencing what's happening, I think there is work happening there. But at the same time, you're right. Digital is going to not become any less important, right? AI will fuel a whole different thing. 

0:17:10.8 Sandeep Seth: The key with that is how do you create a seamless experience so it doesn't matter where they engage with your brand? We shouldn't think of them as separate journeys. It's part of that journey, right, and how that happens. And for me, AI should not be another gimmick or technology because more often than not, technology ends up creating friction. But how does it seamlessly work behind the scenes? How can AI work in the store? I mean, we're using it. We're using data. We're using AI algorithms to generate insights for our store managers to better serve the customers. Be it returning customers for whom the data is available, they know exactly what they bought, how they bought, their behavior, and AI can model many things out for them, right? How do you give the styling tips and where you go? So again, technology is going to be an enabler both in the online world as well as the offline world, right, on there. And how does it seamlessly be there without being in your face, right? It's not about just putting digital screens and creating gimmicks out there, but it's about creating better experience so that you don't even know it was technology.

0:18:16.3 Kailey Raymond: What data sources are you bringing together? How are you connecting all of the dots? I mean, it's not an easy thing that you're doing if you're able to do that, which is to say like online, offline, that connection in and of itself is really tricky. You're getting some of this like consumer behavioral data, I'm sure, from the way they're interacting online. How do you pair that with the in-person insights?

0:18:36.6 Sandeep Seth: Look, at the end, you know, Coach Antapistry is a direct business. So 90% of our business is direct to consumer, which means we have huge amounts of first party data. And then we have great third party data through all the engagement we're seeing with the brand, in different platforms. And the teams have created a lot of interesting algorithms on how we marry this and create both one-on-one personalized solutions, but also more generic lookalike solutions of what this could really mean on that. Again, this doesn't mean technology is always right. I mean, I'm a strong believer that at the end, human judgment will trump everything else, right? So it's humans and technology working together versus one replacing the other. So we equip our store associates with a lot of this knowledge and let them make the decision, right? I mean, it's really game time decisions at the end on what do they think is the best thing for their consumer. Again, I'm going back to the definitions of Gen Z versus millennials versus Gen X. It's very, very different in terms of service expectations, right? Each person is informed differently. Each person has a very different journey through which they kind of come to us. So the more of that we can synthesize into simple nuggets and insight. It's not also getting overwhelmed with data because data can throw so many things that at the end, it can just create life more difficult for our store associates and our store managers and the consumer in the end. But the idea is about a few simple nuggets that can help. And our teams have created some really fascinating use cases, and we're building an IP around some of them.

0:20:13.8 Kailey Raymond: Super, super interesting.

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0:20:19.8 Kailey Raymond: I'm wondering from this is like, is there a decision that you can think back on, whether it's strategic or creative, that might have taught you something that was really surprising about your customers?

0:21:22.4 Sandeep Seth: There's always surprising things, and that's why I find it fascinating that even though I meet consumers literally every month or every other month, I'm in their homes, but there's always something new to learn because human behavior is not static. I'll talk one strategic decision which has really informed much of what we have done with the Coach brand. Coach has been a heritage brand, an iconic brand for over eight decades, and very loved by, I would say, the Gen X and the baby boomers, but wasn't resonating the same way with the younger consumer. So as we started doing a lot of this ethnographic research with the younger customer, I would say 2021, 2022, a lot of things came up, but something that shaped the direction of where we are going as a brand was this whole need for self-expression, which came up. What is the role that fashion, luxury provides in their life? And literally every consumer I met, the 18 to 20 to 24-year-olds, they on one hand were very, very clear on their life goals, right? I mean, so clear. I'm like, I had no idea what I was doing when I was 18.

0:22:32.6 Kailey Raymond: Same, you and me both.

0:22:33.8 Sandeep Seth: This generation seems to be very clear on that. But at the same time, they kept asking, is that right? Is that okay? And I'm like, why are you asking me? I don't know what's okay for you. I would say it, but that was my kind of thought bubble. And then, as you can dig deeper into that, they'll talk about, as I step out and as I want to do all this, I want to do it in my own way, with my own self-expression, but I'm not sure if I will be accepted, right? And that's where the whole self-doubt and lack of confidence comes in, and that really defined the brand purpose for Coach. I mean, Coach always had the statement of courage to be real as its purpose. But we really redefined purpose is really giving that courage to them so that they can self-express with confidence. And that became the center of everything we do at Coach from how campaigns have been built. I mean, the first campaign after that in September of 2022 was Open Doors with Lil Nas X, really talking about how he expressed himself at every time when people raised questions on what he's doing to then, every other campaign that we did in Yo Tabi, where you shine, was all about bringing that internal tension and anxiety and really offering that encouragement to express yourself confidently. That started impacting how we design our products. That started impacting how the store experiences are starting to come to life. 

0:24:08.4 Sandeep Seth: I mean, just to give you a real example of store experience, very often walking into a luxury store can be very intimidating. It actually requires a lot of courage to do that. And with a lot of experiences we've built like Coach Play and those experiences, the idea is to remove that intimidation, right? Create that bond and invitation, but still be luxurious enough for them to kind of experience that. So I would say that one thing had a profound strategic impact on how Coach is bringing everything to life. And we have similar learnings for Kate Spade and continue to kind of bring that. Now, it may sound simple, it may sound obvious, but I think it's what you do with the obvious and how you bring that to life.

0:24:49.4 Kailey Raymond: Well, I think that's exactly it. I mean, really what you're talking about is authenticity and making sure that, you're meeting each of these different profiles of consumers with what makes sense to them and how they express themselves. If you were a brand that was perceived by Gen X and millennials in a certain way, and Gen Z is a completely different category for you where you need to break into it, speaking to them in their language is one of the most important things you can do as a brand. And one of the key things there is being authentic to you, but also, making sure that authenticity feels right to them and that it's not like performative. Finding the right endorsements there must be a really challenging thing too. Like, how did you choose Lil Nas X?

0:25:37.9 Sandeep Seth: I know it's a bit of a cliché to use the term authenticity or being genuine, but I think that was important. As we had to kind of, in a way, I wouldn't say reposition, but evolve the positioning of the brand, we had to really look at every signal that we put out there cause in signaling a change, right? I mean, we've had a lot of brand ambassadors who worked with Coach over a long time, but it was all kind of driving a particular image in the mind of the consumer, and we had to change that. So in a way, Lil Nas X was a tough polarizing choice to make, but essential. But at the same time, his values were very much in line with what we were trying to express, right? His self-expression, standing for what he believes in irrespective of the criticism he's getting, right? So sometimes, it's risky, or you can say from a lot of brands and business point of view, but being authentic, we said we want to go with someone like that. We want to go with someone who truly embodies what our consumers are talking about, and they will be able to relate to that. Yes, many of them may not. And there's always that polarization that's going to come. So that was the choice we were making, but it wasn't just about Lil Nas X. I mean, you know, we've had a whole host of brand ambassadors that we worked with to now we have Elle Fanning, Charles Melton, and then we've got, you know, Natza in China, Young-Jee in Korea. But everyone we picked up, it was not about how famous they are or how big they are, it's what do they stand for? And does the value system meet what the brand's value system that we're trying to define, and especially our consumers' values, right? How does that all come together? And that becomes the prime decision factor versus how many followers they have or what kind of reach we get. Because then you can drive authenticity because what the brand wants to stand for and what these individuals stand for and what our consumer is thinking for, it all kind of merges, right? I always say brands exist for its consumers, and the role of the brand is to find out where we fit in their lives. And that match of values is really essential beyond just providing a functional product, which of course is important. We have to have the highest quality of product, but that in itself is not sufficient.

0:27:55.4 Kailey Raymond: What you're saying is really interesting about this kind of like inherent risk that's involved when, you know, you're looking to work with some of these ambassadors that you're choosing. What I guess I'm wondering around that is there seems to be an inherent balance that you're looking to strike. You could make a decision that is just saying, we know our consumers, we're going to continue to go after them, and that is millennials and that is Gen X. That's not very future-looking because obviously there's a bunch of consumers that are coming up that will have money in their pockets sooner rather than later. And so I guess my question is around the balance of short-term, near-term performance and long-term brand equity. How do you make those types of decisions with both in mind?

0:28:44.7 Sandeep Seth: One line answer, and then I'll kind of describe that, is long-term defines the short-term, not the other way around. I think what we got to remember first, the math of it. The math of it is Gen Z is going to form... Actually, you know, this is a fascinating thing. We had an external speaker recently who said something that was so amazing. He said, do you realize everyone who's in their 20s is Gen Z now? 

0:29:11.6 Kailey Raymond: Wow.

0:29:14.2 Sandeep Seth: Nothing new, but the way he stated it was amazing. So we think Gen Z is the future. No.

0:29:22.1 Kailey Raymond: They're here. They're now. They're in your workforce. They are...

0:29:26.5 Sandeep Seth: And they're the largest consumer segment now. Starting where they are. That's the point of market entry. And if we have to future-proof our growth, we need to grow with the point of market entry. That's the pure math of it. I mean, we've done this number, and I've shared this many times. There are 5 million girls who are going to turn 18 next year in China and every year for the next 10 years, and that's 25 million of them in the markets we play globally. So 25 million girls are going to turn 18. What does that mean? They're going to go from high school to college. Everyone needs a handbag. So that math is compelling enough. Doesn't matter. We don't need to look at anything else. But the other side is also how values move nowadays. Actually, the trends and values go from the younger generations upwards versus the other way around. They are the ones who influence. So at the end, when you are able to influence this generation, actually, you have a huge reverse influence on all the other generations. This is not a trade-off, right? Everyone's looking at what the young people are doing, and everyone wants to be young forever. We are all trying to see where the trends are. So it's an imperative to understand the future generations if you want to future-proof your growth. So that long-term eventually delivers the short-term also. We very often think that, oh, it's important that we should tactically think in the short term. That actually doesn't even deliver the short term, right? It may deliver for a quarter or two quarters of that. So the more we are thinking in longer horizons, and the more actions we are taking, it starts the virtuous cycle, right, on that. It's difficult when you're starting that, I mean, the first few quarters are tough. But once the engine starts rolling, it's fun.

0:31:08.0 Kailey Raymond: We're talking about this balance. I think it's really interesting about, to your point, this long-term strategy is actually also the near-term strategy because the future is now. And by the way, Gen Z is here, so we should think about investing in them.

0:31:21.3 Sandeep Seth: All the 20s are Gen Zs because the oldest Gen Z is 29-year-old now.

0:31:26.6 Kailey Raymond: Oh, man, you're really just like, I don't know. It just feels like this is a wake-up call on a Friday for me. I appreciate you bringing some realness to this conversation.

0:31:38.5 Sandeep Seth: I will throw the cliche, no cap.

[laughter]

0:31:42.9 Kailey Raymond: You really do have some teens at home, Sandeep. You really do.

0:31:45.3 Sandeep Seth: I do. I do.

0:31:48.5 Kailey Raymond: So we're talking about this balance, right? So I'm wondering if there's a campaign example. We just talked about some of these ambassadors you've had, 2022, Lil Nas X. Is there a recent campaign or a campaign that's launching soon that you think captures where Tapestry is headed next? What does that look like?

0:32:06.5 Sandeep Seth: So look, I talked about courage to be real as both Coach's brand purpose that defines our four Ps, but also our campaign, right, on that. And we haven't changed that. I mean, that's a singular message that we started with breaking down doors with Lil Nas X back in September of 2022. Since then, we've done In My Tabby. We've done Wear Your Shine. We've done Life Has Many Paths, Find Your Courage, Unlock Your Courage. And the most recent one, On Your Own Time. All of them tap into the same need for self-expression, underlying self-doubt, and how do we build confidence on that. The reason I'm kind of talking all of these and kind of laying it out is that it's not about jumping from one idea to the other idea. For four years, we've consistently stuck to this, and I get this question asked, when will Coach change this? I'm like, no, I mean, the need for this in the world, we haven't yet achieved the shift we want. We haven't yet given that inspiration to so many people, so we have to keep doing it over and over again. So the campaigns are not going to change. But each one of them brings a different aspect of life, right? On your own time is really talking about how everything that's happening is overwhelming for the young people, but it's overwhelming for all of us. You're just bombarded, the amount of information and everything that's coming. This is where the negative side of too much information and data kind of comes in. You don't know what to do with it. And then, you know, instead of using the machine, you become the machine. You're running after that. On your own time is really all about take control of that, slow time down. You don't need to be part of everything. Instead of the FOMO, right?

0:33:46.7 Kailey Raymond: Oh, yeah, anti-FOMO. I love that.

0:33:49.7 Sandeep Seth: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you've heard the term JOMO, joy of missing out.

0:33:53.4 Kailey Raymond: You are way more in on this than I am. I am learning from you.

0:33:59.3 Sandeep Seth: So you have to live that. Let it be. I mean, you don't have to be part of everything, right? I've talked this half jokingly, half seriously. My superpower is I'm lazy. I don't need to be into everything. And that gives me time to step back and think of what I want to do versus just keep doing things. How do we build that? So this campaign has had many parts, as I talked about. I mean, there's only, what, eighth or ninth episode of that campaign and it's going to keep going. But how do we keep bringing out that each episode of it, if I were to call that, is about a human insight around the same idea, bringing it to life. And on the other side, I don't know if you've seen Kate Spade has recently launched their spring campaign with Ice Pizer and Charlie DeMello, which is really focusing on the moments of joy, something that Kate Spade stands for and how do you bring that to life in a relevant way with human insights and their next campaign that they're soon going to come out with is the next episode of that. So again, it's about defining your role and where you fit in the lives of the consumer and then consistently keep driving that through different insights and keep repeating it in new and fresh ways. As I always say, the three Spider-Man movies that keep repeating itself after every 10 years,

0:35:17.2 Kailey Raymond: That is the realest thing. The joke is always, yeah, to your point, it's not even just that franchise, it's every franchise. There's no new movies.

0:35:28.3 Sandeep Seth: Yeah, but we all love going and watching them.

0:35:31.7 Kailey Raymond: We do, but literally every two years, it's the same movie again and we are right there with it.

0:35:39.3 Sandeep Seth: Yeah, and some dialogues don't change. With great power comes great responsibility.

0:35:44.0 Kailey Raymond: But you love it, the nostalgia, but to your point, the consistency and I think that that is powerful is you have to tell somebody something like, what, 10 times for it to actually sink in? And some of what you're doing is pure psychology, so it makes perfect sense. We're talking about consistency, but I'm wondering if there's anything in the background that might be a little bit more subtle that you needed to change that has had a significant impact.

0:36:12.5 Sandeep Seth: It's easy to say we will be consumer-centric and focus on the consumer. It's difficult to achieve it. You know, I always say that brands fall in love with themselves and their own products, like parents fall in love with their own kids. And when someone visits home, you want your kids to show everything. They can play the piano and the person outside, like, I don't care. I mean, this is horrible. But you don't say it. So it's easy to fall in love with yourself, right? How do you avoid that temptation and remember we exist for our consumers and put consumer at the center? That has been a big change behind the scene for us. Now, that doesn't mean what we do and what we create is any less important. The magic that our teams do is the reason we also exist, but that magic is for an end objective of delighting our consumers through everything we do. And so how do you marry the two? Brand out versus consumer in has been a big shift that we continuously work and continuously remind ourselves when we fall in love with something. We say, it's not about us, right? Sometimes actually, since a lot of the decision makers are Gen X or older millennials, them not liking is not a bad thing.

0:37:26.6 Kailey Raymond: 100%. Yeah, checking yourself.

0:37:29.6 Sandeep Seth: But that's a difficult one because, you know, it's your life experiences that bring you where you are and the belief that I know it all. So one of the mantras which I dread first from Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft, when he talks about growth mindset is move from the stage of I know it all to I learn it all. The moment you start kind of telling yourself that I don't know it all, I have to learn it.

0:37:53.6 Kailey Raymond: There's a humility in that. And honestly, like the older I get, the more that I know, that's the only thing I know is like, I really, I got nothing. I know nothing. When you're 20, it's like the easiest thing in the world to come in and say, I got it. I know exactly what this is. With age, you see a lot more. Okay, I'm gonna wrap this up with a couple of like lightning round questions. Are you ready?

0:38:17.5 Sandeep Seth: Let's go.

0:38:18.3 Kailey Raymond: Okay. What's one consumer trend that you're keeping your eye on?

0:38:24.2 Sandeep Seth: The more offline behavior.

0:38:27.0 Kailey Raymond: Yeah, it is a really interesting one to watch. What's a brand you admire?

0:38:33.2 Sandeep Seth: That's easy, Apple. I'm a big fan of the brand. I don't know how many Apple devices I have, but it's not about the technology. It's about how it makes me feel.

0:38:42.0 Kailey Raymond: Beautifully said. What's one thing every growth leader should start or stop doing?

0:38:50.3 Sandeep Seth: I'll repeat myself here. Stop saying I know it all. Start saying I need to learn it all. Be humble, open to new learnings, and be ready to be proven wrong. I mean, I'm happy to be wrong.

0:39:03.5 Kailey Raymond: Absolutely. And last question for you today. What's the best advice you've received about leading with both purpose and performance?

0:39:12.5 Sandeep Seth: Somebody once told me something which later I understood and I use it a lot is it's okay to leave some money on the table. Don't run after everything because when we do that, we are thinking purely from our own brand perspective or growth perspective instead of the consumer. So if we have to find our purpose, we need to understand is this right for the consumer rather than will this make me money. And that really comes with this whole vision of what brands should be. Brands are both force for growth and force for good, right? And that's what we have to kind of live. So this is something I've had a couple of my bosses and mentors talk about, which I truly, truly have embraced. And also Steve Jobs talks a lot about this if you watch some of his videos.

0:40:00.5 Kailey Raymond: Sandeep, I've learned a ton today. You've dropped a lot of fun little nuggets and some incredible wisdom about growing with intention and authenticity and really what modern brand and growth leadership looks like. I really appreciate your time.

0:40:16.0 Sandeep Seth: Thank you, Kailey. Really appreciate it. I enjoyed chatting with you.